Inliners International Forums General Discussion Engines 216 cranks but will not start

Hey everyone, my name is Tim and I've got a 52 Club Coupe I got from my dad about a year ago. It's been running great until it just died.
I got it towed home and have been trying to find out what's going on.

It's got the original 216 and pretty stock. Split manifold, pertronix, but that's about it.

It cranks, but will not fire at all. I have spark coming out of coil, but not out of plug wires.
I've replaced the pertronix, distributor cap, wires, and rotor, but still the same thing.
I've put fuel into the carb while trying to start, but nothing.

I'm lost, and don't understand why I have spark from the coil, but nothing at the wires.
When the car died, it just died. It had been running great with no other problems until that day.

The spark is out of the coil tower, big wire to cap? It may be not enough to fire the plugs. It could be a bad coil or the pertronix it's self. I have never been left by the road with points but a few HEI modules have stranded me. If you have another coil I'd swap it. If that doesn't work I'd try another Pertronix module. If that is not it you'll have a spare to cary in the glove box for when it does quit because it will. If you have a multi meter you can test the coil. Lots of videos on youtube.

I replaced the Pertronix already, so I already eliminated that part. I could try the coil next. Would a coil just all of a sudden fail like that?

And yes, big wire to cap is where i checked for spark

You have not eliminated the Petronix by simply hanging a new one. New parts can be bad or fail right out of the box. In fact, the failure of a new unit may be linked to the cause of a failure of an old unit. The best course of action may be to go back to basics and install a point set up and coil and see if the motor runs from there.

How long had it been running with the Pertronix before it quit? It seems important to me how long it was working and even it all seemed to be OK until it suddenly quit. A long shot could be the engine has lost it's ground to the Body/frame if the battery is grounded to the frame. Also test the coil.It is a simple resistance test with a multi meter. I did a couple of simple searches and came up with more than you should. I noticed in one a warning about using solid core plug wires. Are you using a ballast resistor and has the car been converted to 12v?

Test Pertronix

Test Coil

thank you for your responses! It's been running great for a little over a year, and my dad did the pertronix while he had it over 4 years ago. the car was converted to 12volts this spring and hasnt had any issues. Im not sure exactly what you mean on the ballast resistor, is it a separate part from the pertronix? And I also saw the issue on solid core wires and made sure the replacements were not (the ones I replaced weren't either)

You are welcome. I hope something here will help.
A ballast resistor is used with some ignitions. It gives full 12v current while cranking and the cuts back once the engine starts. I don't know if they are used with Pertronix. It may depend on what coil you use. Was the Pertronix on the car when It was still 6v? Are there 6v & 12v units?
I found this:
Pertronix - Balist Resistor

There's a lot of info in that thread.

Just watching and learning what I can...but for me I find the transition from analog to digital to be fascinating. As if this helped our great electrical minds pushing us in that direction.

The Pertronix is just another alternative to points?

Any advantages to this Pertronix, over say a different solution like the HEI or Mallory?

For what most of us do stock HEI is plenty, heck for most of us points are fine. There are ways to use the GM HEI externally with the older stock distributers.

And I goofed on explaining something. I said I converted to 12 volts, but dad actually had it as a 12 volt system. He had 2 6 volt batteries wired in series making it 12 volt. I only took those out and put a 12 volt battery in.

It was not uncommon to use two six volt batteries and a special solenoid to get 12v on cranking and 6v the rest of the time.

The Petronix is really just an electronic set of points so to speak. Points mechanically trigger the ignition, the Petronix electrically triggers the ignition. The Petronix does not improve the spark or the curve. Like a lot of you, I have run points for decades. Trught be told, they are pretty reliable. And for our inline motors, we do not struggle with having to reach back to the middle of the firewall to change points. So using and maintenencing a points distributor is pretty easy. That being said, one of the big challenges we have these days is a near total lack of decent capacitors. Junky chinese crap that just seems to fail more often. So that is the challange with points.

As for Petronix, lots have had good luck with the units, others not so much. so that is the issue with the petrinix.

HEI, now there is a terrific ignition. Hot like you can't believe, reliable, but does require some level of modification to install and some wiring changes will need to be made. But boy do they work well. Deve over at stovebolt use to, and maybe still does, sell a conversion kit to convert a stock distributor to HEI (also do an internet search for Deve's Technet). Langdon sells a converted small cap V6 HEI distributor and I understand, but have no experience myself that you may be able to use a later HEI. Lots of people say you can do it, I just have not seen any tech articles or instructions or posts on how that is done.

One alternative if you are unconfortable trying a conversion yourself, try contacting Pat Mason at Mason Racing Ignitions.

http://www.masonracingignitions.com/

Pat was Vertex Magneto's chief engineer when they were still in Blue Bell PA. He is terrific at HEI set ups. Call, don't email. He is old school, quiet, but excellent to deal with and fair.

What are the symptoms of a bad cam gear? If spark goes into the distributor but doesn't come out, can it be mechanical? I do notice that the rotor spins when I try to turn it over, so would that mean the cam is engaging and the cam gear is ok?

Maybe pick off some low hanging fruit. First, pull the plugs and do a compression test. Let's make sure its not somethng more catastrophic and insted confirm that there is enough compression to support cumbustion. Then, you must figure out whether the Petronix unit is toast. Its not all that uncommon. So you need to remove the Petronix and install a point set up. Both of the above are cheap and easy. If the motor has sufficient compression to support combustion, and you have the old reliable point set up installed and can confirm the coil is good and its geting spark, then you can look at fuel. Compression, spark and fuel.

I forgot those had a fiber timing gear. But if that broke the distributer wouldn't turn.

This is a fundamental question that can be tested. If you pull a plug wire and place it close to the block does it spark? If so this means that current flow for a spark is being distributed through the rotor/cap. This leads to the question: why doesn't the spark jump the plug gap? Is the mixture so lean the spark can't jump through it? Have you tried some ether starting fluid?

Thanks again, everyone. I will check compression this weekend. I don't have the old points, so I will start with compression. I think I am a little intimidated by points just because I've never had a car with them, and I'm kind of clueless about them. I think that's why I liked the simplicity of the Pertronix, but we'll see where the compression test takes me. I need to get it into storage soon, so I need to stop putting it off, and get it running!

Points are easy and lots of us can walk you through the process. If you are going to play with old cars and trucks, its a good skill to have anyway.

Well, before I go down the road of points, I did a compression test over the weekend. I found cylinders 1,2,3 and 6 were at 95 PSI, #4 was at 70PSI and # 5 was at 40PSI. It would appear something is going on inside. I always thought if you have lower compression, you would have another thing going on, rough running, smoking, etc. I didn't have anything like that, it just quit! I don't get it, and now I really don't know where to go. Thanks again for all of your responses!

Do the compression test again. Lets make sure its consistant. Then, if it is consistant, do the test one more time but this time, just before you do the test for each cylinder, put a couple of good squirts of 30 weight oil in the cylinder. Lets see what you get.

Back in the time when 216s moved a large part of the people and goods all over the world it was common practice to rebuild them without removing the engine. There are shims on the bottom end and it's a good chance you still have some left. Possibly the cylinders are straight enough to take a light hone & new rings. Maybe even a simple lapping of the valves will get you going again. These are simple good engines built to last and to be repaired. Remember it is only "stock" once.

OK, sounds good. I will run a compression test again, and also with the oil. I did notice my battery was a little weak from sitting and it didn't turn over as strong as it was, so I'll get a good charge back into it too.

Sorry for the delay on this. My dad was trying to help me out also on this, over the phone, (he lived in Indiana) but he had some medical issues and passed away sadly around Thanksgiving, so the Chevy has been on hold for a while. I really miss him and having the car just makes me think of him. He always was there to help me out with fixing stuff as I was never very mechanically inclined and I miss not being able to call him up anymore.
I will try again on it after Christmas and figure out what is going on.

I am very sorry that you lost your dad. Any man can be a father but it takes a special one to be a dad. I lost mine when I was 21 and too stupid to know what I'd lost.

When you are ready again we'll try to help get your 216 going again.

Thank you so much, I really appreciate that. Now that I'm in my 40's, I definitely appreciated Dad a lot more now than when I knew everything in my 20's
I'll keep you posted on the 216!