Inliners International Forums General Discussion Engines 292 Water Pump and Fuel Pump Questions

Sorry in advance for the long post.

I'm starting the 292 build process I'm going to use in my 1953 GMC 2-Ton project. I've got some questions I hope are not too silly. I've been searching online and here at Inliners with no clear answers.

The 1965 292 I originally purchased for this big truck project has what I am measuring (with a dial bore gauge) to be cylinders that will not cleanup at 0.060" over. Bad luck.

Good luck though because I found a second 292 out of a 1978 C20 pickup. Even more luck, this second 292 was completely dressed. From air cleaner to oil pan, and water pump to flex plate. Alternator, power steering pump and all the brackets I will eventually need. My original 292 was just a simple long block.

I have discovered something odd about the second engine...

I noticed the harmonic balancer does not look like any 292 balancer I can find. But, it sure looks like a 250 balancer. It occurred to me that this 292 was probably used to replace the original 250 engine in the C20 truck. What they must have done (I'm guessing here...) is they just put the entire face of the 250 onto the front of the 292. They re-used from the 250 the harmonic balancer, water pump, power steering and alternator brackets, etc. From what I can see, everything all fits well. All pulleys line up and belts run true.

This brings me to my first question: Is it safe to use a water pump originally intended for a 250 on a 292? I have learned that some water pumps on these engines are longer. What I don't know is if this 250 pump will safely work with the 292.

My last question is about fuel pumps. I understand that the 250 and 292 use different camshafts and the fuel pump locations are different. Will the same fuel pump work for both engines? I understand that the fuel fitting locations on the pumps might be different. What I'm wanting to know is if the mounting and geometry of the pump arms are the same.

Thanks in advance for your help with this!

David

I did a quick search of O'Reilly. 250 & 292 use the same fuel pump. I'm sure there are different models possibly some with a vacuum pump.

after pumps show different numbers, I think there were at least 3 different 292 water pumps that play a part in bracketing and pulley selection.

A hard thing to find is a power steering bracket. Because of the different block height the brackets mounting alternator, ps, & ac can be quite a bit different. If all of yours fits and doesn't appear to be altered 250 pieces too are luckier than you thought. I'd make sure I had a 292 dampener.

Your build sounds great. 292s as truck motors interest me. It is a different deal than a race car build. You don't need a lot of the modifications.

From a 2004 post:

"#3683 - 08-08-2004 04:26 PM Re: 292 power steering brackets
Mr K Offline
Member

Registered: 08-08-2004
Posts: 19
I have confirmed 3 stlyes of pre 1972 power steering systems for that engine I own all three stlyes.
The first uses a big pump that sits on top like used on some 427 engines, the other uses a small pump setup and the third has the pump on the bottom just like a 427 case, there are two holes for this at the bottom of the 292 block most people dont know this.

Finding PS for pre 1972 292 is one of the hardest things to find if all else fails just change your harmonic balencer to the newer then 1972 stlye and add that newer setup and it will work, in all cases you will need the right water pump pully water pump and brackets to match your choosen setup.
this might pave the way for you a little more."

From an old eBay add"

Thanks for the reply. Rock auto also shows the same fuel pump interchanging between early 70's trucks that came with either the 250 or the 292. I asked because I found two older fuel pumps that I'm hopping I can rebuild. One is an AC and the other looks like a Carter. The rebuild kits are kind of pricey, but my fingers are crossed they will live longer if I rebuild them myself. I've been reading a lot about the off-shore pumps not lasting very long. If there is a "favorite" place you like to get your fuel pump rebuild kits, I would really appreciate the referral. I'm new to all of this stuff...

Thanks for the water pump picture! My concern is less about the pump length from the block face to the fan hub, but more concerned about if a water pump intended for a 250 is OK to run on a 292. I do not have both styles of pumps here to compare the impeller on the back (the business end of the pump).

I did learn more about these pumps in regard to their lengths. There are 4 common lengths found on the 250: 3 1/8", 3 11/16", 3 7/8", and 4 1/4".

The 292 truck engines came in 3 common lengths: 3 15/16", 4 3/8", and 4 1/2".

Source where I found the water pump lengths: Flow Cooler

I'm going to send the good folks at "Damper Dudes" some pictures of the harmonic damper on the later 292 engine I bought and see what he thinks. I still think it's from a 250 engine. It's a large 3 belt pulley type, but not like any 292 harmonic balancer I can find online.

The 292 water pump has a much larger impeller than the 250 water pump, so it's pretty much specific to the 292. You can physically bolt the 250 pump to a 292 block, but will likely have overheating issues due to the impeller not fitting the block cavity to have good water circulation....

Make sure you keep us up on your build. I'm sitting on a 292 build to replace the 350 in my '68 C20 flatbed. I've got the parts just need to do it.

CNC-Dude,

Thank you so much for that information! I will make sure I use a 292 specific water pump.

Beater of the Pack,

I'm happy to share my progress! I see sections like "Engines", "Body & Paint", "Electrical", "Drivetrain", but no section for a general build. I'm happy to share in the sections that exist if it helps. I guess it's time to become a member... Then I can share images.

David

This is your thread just keep it here so it is all in one spot or it you want a new build thread maybe the Truck Talk forum would be good.

Short update:

I was convinced the front end on this 1978 292 I have is from a 250. It turns out, the odd harmonic balancer I see on the front of my engine is for a 292. I have tried to upload a couple image of the balancer I have here in the shop on the forum, but I don't seem to be able to. My balancer has a wide space between the first two belt grooves. The alternator and water pump pulley from this engine has the same wide spacing.

I did find a couple of images of the same balancer online though. If any of you can confirm this is a 292 style balancer, I would greatly appreciate it! It's from a 1978 C20 pickup.

Here are some links to the balancer style that I have.:

There are three 292s in the shed and none have that pulley. But that really doesn't mean anything. One has 3 groves but different spacing.

David, My damper looks like that except it has the thin part in the front towards the radiator, not towards the engine. The other day I found a website, I just tried to go to it and the page won't load, may be blocked here at work, but if you search online for "Davids Speed Equipment 292 damper", there is a PDF on the site that shows the six different 292 Harmonic Dampers and what year engines they fit.

DD,

Thanks for the confirmation. I visited the Davis Speed Equipment site, and found the .pdf you talked about. It clearly shows the style of harmonic damper I have is for a 292:

292 Guide

My dampener is "B" in the .pdf. I found another image of the style of damper I have on the Davis Speed Equipment website:



The good news is I have the correct damper for the alternator and power steering brackets and pulleys I got with this later engine. The not so good news is it seems this harmonic damper I have is not being made anymore.

Has anyone had any luck with the harmonic damper rebuilders out there? I have found only two that seem legit. The Damper Doctor in Redding, California, and Dale Manufacturing in Salem, Oregon.

The other option is to buy a more common "still being made" 3 groove (not like mine) and change the water pump and alternator pulleys to the narrower belt spacing style. I would need to tweak the original brackets so the alternator and power steering pump belts line up right.

Thanks again everyone for your help!

David

That is a great chart & pictures. I like the water pump pictures too. Thanks.

Very nice to know all your drives lien up. I used Damper Doctor yers ago and there did a good job. There used to be a Damper Dude too.

My 3 grove dampener is E.

The "E" damper from the list is one that's still being manufactured. Summit Racing sells the Pioneer brand for $75. I personally think that's a good price:

292 Three Grove Damper

I will need to call Damper Dudes. They are located in Anderson, CA. I was under the impression they only sold new dampers. I didn't know they rebuilt them too. Thanks for that tip! Hopefully I can get the style damper I have here rebuilt. That way I don't need to fiddle with my alternator and power steering brackets to make a different damper work.

Who said any of this was going to be easy! HA!

I will update more about this damper issue as I progress.

David

I checked out the Damper Doctor website on Friday, I like the idea of getting the original one rebuilt. Their process sounds like it produces really good results.

The one you linked from Summit is like the one I have.

Update on my final damper choice:

After researching getting my original harmonic damper rebuilt, I've decided to just purchase the PowerBond PB1026N damper from Summit. Link: 292 Three Groove Damper

The reason for not rebuilding my original is mostly because of cost. With shipping back and forth, it works out to somewhere near 3 times the cost. Plus, buying a damper that is still being manufactured, will hopefully help the person who ends up with this project someday down the road. The new damper came today in the post, and I have to admit, it looks very good.

And now for some pictures thanks to stock49's hard work updating the forum software! My picture taking skills? Maybe not so good. I need to figure out this whole "lighting" thing...:





I have already found the correct alternator pulley to match the new damper belt spacing. I just need to find a dual water pump pulley, and all my original alternator and power steering pump brackets will work! Well, to be more honest, I may need to adjust/shim some things when I get to final assembly.

Take care all!

David

It's going to be nice!